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	<title>Comments on: Is Dorothy King&#8217;s book on the Elgin Marbles worth reading?</title>
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	<description>Elgin Marbles (Parthenon Marbles or Sculptures)</description>
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		<title>By: Vassilis Manoussos</title>
		<link>http://www.elginism.com/20060202/316/comment-page-1/#comment-5513</link>
		<dc:creator>Vassilis Manoussos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have had an experience with the way the British Museum deals with the Greek artifacts in its posession. Here are my thoughts in this blog.

http://trifter.com/europe/united-kingdom/the-parthenon-marbles-are-they-really-safe-in-the-united-kingdom/ 

As for Dorothy King, thanks to the Greeks and the Athenians, she now lives in what she calls &quot;Democracy&quot; and have the freedom to express her opinions. 

But on the other side, let us not forget the immortal words of Clint Eastwood : &quot;opinions are like a....oles. Everybody has one&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had an experience with the way the British Museum deals with the Greek artifacts in its posession. Here are my thoughts in this blog.</p>
<p><a href="http://trifter.com/europe/united-kingdom/the-parthenon-marbles-are-they-really-safe-in-the-united-kingdom/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://trifter.com/europe/united-kingdom/the-parthenon-marbles-are-they-really-safe-in-the-united-kingdom/'>http://trifter.com/europe/united-kingdom/the-parthenon-marbles-are-they-really-safe-in-the-united-kingdom/</a> </p>
<p>As for Dorothy King, thanks to the Greeks and the Athenians, she now lives in what she calls &#8220;Democracy&#8221; and have the freedom to express her opinions. </p>
<p>But on the other side, let us not forget the immortal words of Clint Eastwood : &#8220;opinions are like a&#8230;.oles. Everybody has one&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Dida Papalexiou</title>
		<link>http://www.elginism.com/20060202/316/comment-page-1/#comment-5505</link>
		<dc:creator>Dida Papalexiou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If the Greeks had lost their national identity, as Dr King claims, the Parthenon wouldn&#039;t be on the Acropolis now. It would have been demolished by the Turks besieged  within the Acropolis during the siege of 1821-1822 .The leader of the siege, Gouras, in an attempt to save the marbles from demolition, as the Parthenon structure  was a source of lead for the besieged Turks, offered the lead required by the enemies in order  to make their ammunition.

Further, the hypothesis that if Elgin hadn&#039;t snatched the marbles to salvation, they would be clay powder now, it&#039;s an outrageous hypothesis, disgracing Dr King&#039;s prestige as an historian because the rest of the friese marbles are in the new Acropolis museum, &#039;alive and kicking&#039;

In my humble opinion, Dr King should be more careful when expressing views like this, as she is not speaking to illiterate audiences, unless this is the respect she grands to the British audience. It would be braver and more ethical to admit the usurpation and the illegal possession of the marbles , as a result of the British power and influence on the Ottoman Empire then, and now, as a result of reluctance to render justice to to History.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Greeks had lost their national identity, as Dr King claims, the Parthenon wouldn&#8217;t be on the Acropolis now. It would have been demolished by the Turks besieged  within the Acropolis during the siege of 1821-1822 .The leader of the siege, Gouras, in an attempt to save the marbles from demolition, as the Parthenon structure  was a source of lead for the besieged Turks, offered the lead required by the enemies in order  to make their ammunition.</p>
<p>Further, the hypothesis that if Elgin hadn&#8217;t snatched the marbles to salvation, they would be clay powder now, it&#8217;s an outrageous hypothesis, disgracing Dr King&#8217;s prestige as an historian because the rest of the friese marbles are in the new Acropolis museum, &#8216;alive and kicking&#8217;</p>
<p>In my humble opinion, Dr King should be more careful when expressing views like this, as she is not speaking to illiterate audiences, unless this is the respect she grands to the British audience. It would be braver and more ethical to admit the usurpation and the illegal possession of the marbles , as a result of the British power and influence on the Ottoman Empire then, and now, as a result of reluctance to render justice to to History.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.elginism.com/20060202/316/comment-page-1/#comment-5493</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elginism.com/20060202/316/#comment-5493</guid>
		<description>Dorothy King is crazy. 
She and her friends have turned this into a political vendetta.
They are trying to belittle ancient Greek civilization. 
They are morons.

The real story:
The marbles were stolen by Elgin according to some, legally purchased according to others and saved from impending damage.
But is n&#039;t it a bit like saving your friend&#039;s property from the fire and then refusing to give it back ? If you do that you start by being a hero and then make yourself into a social outcast, when you hold on to your friend&#039;s belongings indefinitely.
The reason those marbles exist in England is an act of parliament in 1830 meant to appease the Turkish Sultan, after the Greek revolution. The British did not want to have anything with the Greek revolution anymore and decided it was time to make friends with the Sultan. A move to humiliate the king of Greece (Otto) over the issue of the marbles, was handy in that respet.
That shambles of a parliamentary decision is what started it all.

The Elgin marbles affair was a political vendetta from the start and retained the dimensions of a political vendetta in the years that followed.
Gt. Britain and Turkey became enemies again and friends again. Gt. Britain and Greece remained in alliance, but with this thorn in the flesh of their relations.
Today there are no more wars. 
Turkey -the controlling power during Elgin&#039;s time- now thinks the marbles are Greek and they should never have been removed in the first place.

To my mind it is evidently not a matter of legality but a matter of political morality and ethics. 
It is not even a matter of archaeology because -here or there- the people of the world will always be able to see and admire the ancient Greek exhibits.
The circus of people who support the (official) British line and are trying to make a case out of nothing are in reality nothing but a bunch of political extremists and bully-boys who are happy when Anglo-Greek alliance is damaged (and the consequences to trade - commerce - cultural exchanges mean nothing to them because their money is not in any case enough to buy a bag of pop corn in the first place).
The number of extremist articles they have published is too numerous to site and in those they immitate the infamous Herman Gorig who ransacked the Louvre from its treasures, until the Americans returned everything from the castle in Bavaria.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dorothy King is crazy.<br />
She and her friends have turned this into a political vendetta.<br />
They are trying to belittle ancient Greek civilization.<br />
They are morons.</p>
<p>The real story:<br />
The marbles were stolen by Elgin according to some, legally purchased according to others and saved from impending damage.<br />
But is n&#8217;t it a bit like saving your friend&#8217;s property from the fire and then refusing to give it back ? If you do that you start by being a hero and then make yourself into a social outcast, when you hold on to your friend&#8217;s belongings indefinitely.<br />
The reason those marbles exist in England is an act of parliament in 1830 meant to appease the Turkish Sultan, after the Greek revolution. The British did not want to have anything with the Greek revolution anymore and decided it was time to make friends with the Sultan. A move to humiliate the king of Greece (Otto) over the issue of the marbles, was handy in that respet.<br />
That shambles of a parliamentary decision is what started it all.</p>
<p>The Elgin marbles affair was a political vendetta from the start and retained the dimensions of a political vendetta in the years that followed.<br />
Gt. Britain and Turkey became enemies again and friends again. Gt. Britain and Greece remained in alliance, but with this thorn in the flesh of their relations.<br />
Today there are no more wars.<br />
Turkey -the controlling power during Elgin&#8217;s time- now thinks the marbles are Greek and they should never have been removed in the first place.</p>
<p>To my mind it is evidently not a matter of legality but a matter of political morality and ethics.<br />
It is not even a matter of archaeology because -here or there- the people of the world will always be able to see and admire the ancient Greek exhibits.<br />
The circus of people who support the (official) British line and are trying to make a case out of nothing are in reality nothing but a bunch of political extremists and bully-boys who are happy when Anglo-Greek alliance is damaged (and the consequences to trade &#8211; commerce &#8211; cultural exchanges mean nothing to them because their money is not in any case enough to buy a bag of pop corn in the first place).<br />
The number of extremist articles they have published is too numerous to site and in those they immitate the infamous Herman Gorig who ransacked the Louvre from its treasures, until the Americans returned everything from the castle in Bavaria.</p>
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		<title>By: George Joannou</title>
		<link>http://www.elginism.com/20060202/316/comment-page-1/#comment-5097</link>
		<dc:creator>George Joannou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elginism.com/20060202/316/#comment-5097</guid>
		<description>King&#039;s arguement that the marbles should stay in the British Museum is more emotive rather than objective. She still believes that Britain has the right to own other counties&#039; national treasures  and cultural artifacts. Is this not Imperialism in the 21st century.

Lord Elgin did not remove the Parthenon Marbles because of his selfless sacrifice to preserve them, rather because he wanted them in his own private collection . He only sold them to the British Parliament because he needed the money . If Lord Elgin had his way the Parthenon Marbles would be passed on to his descendants as a private collection , thus robbing future generations of the right to enjoy these amazing Hellenistic treasures .

The Parthenon Marbles belong in their rightful place of origin , in Athens in the new Greek Museum near the Acropolis.

To put things in perspective, who wants to see the English Crown Jewels in Athens, or indeed the Tower of London in Athens. No one of course, these amazing historical treasures belong in England where their history originated. The British Museum has done a wonderful job looking after them (except in the 1930s when some of the sculptures were permanently damaged as a result of using harsh abrasives to try to whiten them), but now it is time to return them to their rightful custodians , the Greeks. This way all lovers of history can enjoy them in their proper settings where they originated from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>King&#8217;s arguement that the marbles should stay in the British Museum is more emotive rather than objective. She still believes that Britain has the right to own other counties&#8217; national treasures  and cultural artifacts. Is this not Imperialism in the 21st century.</p>
<p>Lord Elgin did not remove the Parthenon Marbles because of his selfless sacrifice to preserve them, rather because he wanted them in his own private collection . He only sold them to the British Parliament because he needed the money . If Lord Elgin had his way the Parthenon Marbles would be passed on to his descendants as a private collection , thus robbing future generations of the right to enjoy these amazing Hellenistic treasures .</p>
<p>The Parthenon Marbles belong in their rightful place of origin , in Athens in the new Greek Museum near the Acropolis.</p>
<p>To put things in perspective, who wants to see the English Crown Jewels in Athens, or indeed the Tower of London in Athens. No one of course, these amazing historical treasures belong in England where their history originated. The British Museum has done a wonderful job looking after them (except in the 1930s when some of the sculptures were permanently damaged as a result of using harsh abrasives to try to whiten them), but now it is time to return them to their rightful custodians , the Greeks. This way all lovers of history can enjoy them in their proper settings where they originated from.</p>
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